tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post7528186628576062205..comments2024-03-14T10:31:26.918+00:00Comments on DCblog: On "can be able to"DChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-62818329980445800562011-10-07T07:26:34.502+00:002011-10-07T07:26:34.502+00:00I always found it very difficult to digest someone...I always found it very difficult to digest someone using "can be able to or cannot be able to" as i found these two "can" and "able" in this structure mere a repetition of meaning. But i have observed that people in South India use it quite often though i never heard such an expression in North India. <br />Logically i find it difficult to translate in Hindi and awkward to understand.Nirmohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03612572087236901267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-37325079518775894242009-04-09T07:42:00.000+00:002009-04-09T07:42:00.000+00:00Hi!Rick suggested that, "I registered myself in Au...Hi!<BR/><BR/>Rick suggested that, "I registered myself in August so that I can vote in November" implies<BR/>that Ihe definitely intends to vote, while, "I registered myself in August so that I can be able to vote in November" implies only that he wants to preserve the ability to decide later whether to vote.<BR/><BR/>I might understand that in the right context. :-) But (to my knowledge) we in Western Canada would usually say, "I registered myself in August so that I can vote in November if I want to."<BR/><BR/>Regards: Yuuri<BR/><BR/>--Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-73586777686157980082008-11-07T17:03:00.000+00:002008-11-07T17:03:00.000+00:00As a new US subscriber to your RSS feed, I was jus...As a new US subscriber to your RSS feed, I was just reading this while catching up.<BR/><BR/>Kate Gladstone's first comment above includes the statement "The wide use of 'can[not] be able' in North American English should surprise no one...". Well, I must say it surprises <I>me</I>; it sounds distinctly odd to me, and I'm not really sure I've ever seen or heard it before.<BR/><BR/>The only time I can imagine using such a construction is in very special circumstances, when I wished to emphasize the difference between preserving the option to take an action versus actually intending to take it. For example, "I registered myself in August so that I can vote in November" implies that I definitely intend to vote, but "I registered myself in August so that I can <I>be able</I> to vote in November" implies only that I wanted to preserve the ability to decide later whether to vote.<BR/><BR/>As for "will be able to" as the future "tense" of "can", that's exactly the constuction I use, and although some of my friends do see my phrasing as occasionally highfalutin (by which they might mean "stodgy"), they haven't seen fit to call it unnatural. With respect to the previous paragraph, I might say "I registered myself in August so that I'll be able to vote in November", but that again implies intent to me. I would still use the "can be able" construction to emphasize preserving my option.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-36345011374591639002008-09-26T06:52:00.000+00:002008-09-26T06:52:00.000+00:00What an interesting post! Thanks much, for the ref...What an interesting post! Thanks much, for the references to the earlier uses of "can't able to". Here in India, it is regularly heard but considered, by English-educated Indians at least, non-standard and ungrammatical. And in this part of the English-speaking world, non-standard/ungrammatical English is usually attributed to the influence of the vernacular languages. But I'm forced to reconsider that stand now, at least on this particular usage. Should be interesting to find out why it's so common here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-3751677100203085182008-09-24T12:33:00.000+00:002008-09-24T12:33:00.000+00:00Thinking about (UK) regional variations of English...Thinking about (UK) regional variations of English, I can only think of one instance it is used nowadays: "so I can be able to" - when emphasising expression of intent or will. I've never heard or read it in the negative.<BR/><BR/>I was delighted to hear the query was passed on to you! It begs the question "Who owns the English language?". <BR/><BR/>My answer would be "everyone who speaks it". Failing that I'd much prefer David Crystal to be in charge than the Queen, some kind of institute, the BBC or Microsoft Word's spellcheck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-56771988215867679132008-08-18T09:11:00.000+00:002008-08-18T09:11:00.000+00:00Thanks for that. Useful reference.Thanks for that. Useful reference.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-82452598734487451172008-08-17T17:13:00.000+00:002008-08-17T17:13:00.000+00:00I've now found a reference for Black South African...I've now found a reference for Black South African 'can be able'.<BR/><BR/>Gough, D.H. 1995. `Black English in South Africa.' In De Klerk, V. (ed.) English around the World: Focus on Southern Africa. Amsterdam: John Benjamins.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04471958551035248498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-24451411622319382242008-08-17T17:12:00.000+00:002008-08-17T17:12:00.000+00:00I've now found a reference for Black South African...I've now found a reference for Black South African 'can be able'.<BR/><BR/>Gough, D.H. 1995. `Black English in South Africa.' In De Klerk, V. (ed.) English around the World: Focus on Southern Africa. Amsterdam: John Benjamins.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04471958551035248498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-81999261259963001382008-08-16T14:49:00.000+00:002008-08-16T14:49:00.000+00:00In the part of South Africa where I worked, and qu...In the part of South Africa where I worked, and quite probably in the whole country 'can be able' was a pretty reliable index of a Black speaker of English.<BR/><BR/>White Afrikaner speakers of English weren't too impressed, but they had their own idiosyncratic way with another modal: 'shall'.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04471958551035248498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-17000036402818735082008-08-10T23:44:00.000+00:002008-08-10T23:44:00.000+00:00I've never heard or seen "can't able" except in th...I've never heard or seen "can't able" except in the sole example you quote; so I'd put it down either to sloppy typing or to the odd tendency of some people (who do not normally delete forms of the verb BE) to delete these forms in their e-mails.KateGladstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062492442607584456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-84239994464585638232008-08-08T22:13:00.000+00:002008-08-08T22:13:00.000+00:00Point taken about the US usage - but it doesn't ex...Point taken about the US usage - but it doesn't explain the present example, which came from a British lawyer.<BR/><BR/>You don't mention <I>can't able</I> in your set of interesting examples. Is that ever used in the US? I've never come across it in the UK, not even regionally.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-22607995081561928802008-08-08T19:50:00.000+00:002008-08-08T19:50:00.000+00:00In the USA (and in Canada, as I recall) "can[not] ...In the USA (and in Canada, as I recall) "can[not] be able to" abounds in spoken standard English -- and fairly frequently appears (though schoolteachers condemn it) in written standard English. <BR/><BR/>Many of us North Americans say (and some of us write) "can be able to" (as the future tense of "can") far more often than we'd ever use "will be able to/shall be able to" (those latter ways of saying it would strike many Americans as decidedly stodgy, schoolmarmish, and -- yes -- unnatural).<BR/><BR/>The wide use of "can[not] be able" in North American English should surprise no one, as of course English-speakers had colonized North America well before anyone decided to outlaw "can be able."<BR/><BR/>Out of curiosity, I checked the original Hebrew of Exodus 10:5 to see whether anything in the Hebrew necessitated "cannot be able to" -- however, the Hebrew phrase in question merely translates as "will not be able to":<BR/>the word for 'not', followed by the future-tense form of the word for '[he] can'.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, I presume that the King James Bible translators (just like many North Americans) simply regarded "cannot be able to" as a normal way -- perhaps *the* normal -- way to form the future of "cannot".<BR/><BR/>Regarding "small claims court" rather than "a/the small claims court": in the USA, types of court simply do not get articles (with the exceptions of "the Supreme Court", "the Court of Appeals", and "the courts" when used to mean the legal system generally: "the case is going through the courts" and so on.)<BR/><BR/>Standard (and nonstandard) USA spoken and written English universally use "go to small claims court" -- "the case is in divorce court" -- "children under sixteen are tried in juvenile court" -- and so on: <BR/>just as both USA speakers and UK speakers talk/write about "going to court/going to college/going to school" and UK speakers talk and write about "going to hospital" and "going to university".<BR/>(Here in the USA, we find the UK usages "going to hospital"/"going to university" without the article every bit as bizarre and unexpected as you UK speakers apparently find our un-articled "going to small claims court".)KateGladstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062492442607584456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-19420238612342881122008-08-08T08:57:00.000+00:002008-08-08T08:57:00.000+00:00OK, but be careful, as some stylists would be crit...OK, but be careful, as some stylists would be critical of it.<BR/><BR/>The other example sounds like an error to me. Note that they've also omitted an article or something before 'small claims court'. Feels like sloppy editing.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-1416901537121202182008-08-08T08:48:00.000+00:002008-08-08T08:48:00.000+00:00Logical and spontaneous! I will start using it! By...Logical and spontaneous! I will start using it! <BR/>By Google search I just now came across usages without 'be':"What if you can't able to serve someone in small claims court?"<BR/>It doesn't sound correct, does it, Professor? What are the syntactic and semantic functions of 'able' here?Anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15784839644389409568noreply@blogger.com