tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post6496634387030067011..comments2024-03-14T10:31:26.918+00:00Comments on DCblog: On 'Marley and me/I'DChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-2843644489777719772018-04-09T14:37:31.799+00:002018-04-09T14:37:31.799+00:00Then she was ignoring the option for a language to...Then she was ignoring the option for a language to express extra emphasis, reinforcement, and other such notions. On this bais, presumably she would reduce Shakespeare's line in King Lear, 'Never, never, never, never, never', to just one word.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-84680979765128798942018-04-09T14:34:30.437+00:002018-04-09T14:34:30.437+00:00'Me' is not the direct object. It is a co...'Me' is not the direct object. It is a complement of 'be'.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-4355327633157530052018-04-08T16:18:19.886+00:002018-04-08T16:18:19.886+00:00My composition teacher in college would cross out ...My composition teacher in college would cross out "myself" in I myself.She would say it's redundant,excessive,not neededAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00767735965842740351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-88653141056239265212018-04-08T16:05:05.199+00:002018-04-08T16:05:05.199+00:00I always understood that me is correct when used a...I always understood that me is correct when used as the direct object of the verb.It is me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00767735965842740351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-16956553879228487882012-03-08T03:02:01.849+00:002012-03-08T03:02:01.849+00:00"Me" is disjunctive, as far as I know. ..."Me" is disjunctive, as far as I know. It just depends on what is considered the unmarked form; nominative and possessive case is marked, but "me", the accusative, is the default for all other semantic relations which are expressed like "to me", "with me", "from me". This is salient because I/me/my is a genuine case system hold-over as far as I know.<br /><br />In "Withnail and I", it's still OK, but there is presumably an ellipsed predicate, or it's hypercorrection.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01773966173117509466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-51012605882012020532012-01-20T18:51:05.219+00:002012-01-20T18:51:05.219+00:00" Usages such as 'Jane and myself went to..." Usages such as 'Jane and myself went to the cinema ... John and myself" are quite common in the USA.KateGladstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062492442607584456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-79839607110566646562011-12-15T17:05:17.958+00:002011-12-15T17:05:17.958+00:00When 'I' developed as a single sound out o...When 'I' developed as a single sound out of earlier 'ic/ich', there was uncertainty about how to write it, and various manuscript versions were proposed, such as i, I, j, y, and Y. Printers standardized on 'I', probably to avoid a confusion with 'i', which was also used for numerals.<br /><br />Whether you capitalize nouns like 'mum/dad' depends on whether you see them as proper nouns or not. If yes, then capitalize; if not, don;t.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-61139995313696632102011-12-15T13:27:35.722+00:002011-12-15T13:27:35.722+00:00Can you tell me why "I" has a capital le...Can you tell me why "I" has a capital letter and "me" does not? Also, I have just been discussing with a colleague whether or not the words "mum" and "dad" should ever be capitalised. I don't remember reading that they need to be in any punctuation book. Thanks.Deb73https://www.blogger.com/profile/10881354057027658005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-18620873110716969502011-10-12T20:58:34.416+00:002011-10-12T20:58:34.416+00:00My school French teacher used to give what I thoug...My school French teacher used to give what I thought was an excellent argument against the use of 'I' where 'me' is perfectly fine: only the most pedantic of native speakers would ever respond to the question 'Who is there?' with the answer 'I.' Even those who might normally say 'It is I' would use 'me' in this reduced version of the sentence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-51644782400711696052011-09-28T17:58:10.641+00:002011-09-28T17:58:10.641+00:00Like Limr, I have lived in and around NYC all my l...Like Limr, I have lived in and around NYC all my life and have heard <i>myself</i> for <i>me</i> constantly. It makes me twitch, but I no longer erupt into prescriptive tirades about it, which is progress.<br /><br />My mother said "This is she" on the telephone, which she must have learned prescriptively: she was born in Germany in 1919 and came to the U.S. in 1931. (It's not a calque of German <i>Ich bin's</i>, obviously.)John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-12133935960763045972011-09-02T10:21:11.887+00:002011-09-02T10:21:11.887+00:00When I was a child, I asked my mother/mum why the ...When I was a child, I asked my mother/mum why the title of a British sitcom was "Hugh and I" (brilliant comedy, btw). She told me that was just the way posh people talked/spoke. That stuck with me. So when I want to sound posh, I use X and I, and when I'm not trying to impress, I use "X and me". Context is all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-51487819361621308812011-08-13T16:35:47.495+00:002011-08-13T16:35:47.495+00:00There are subjects and objects in their mother ton...There are subjects and objects in their mother tongue, so as long as they develop an understanding of the grammatical contrast from that it should be possible to make use of the notion in relation to English.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-11628479355145113662011-08-12T03:46:59.161+00:002011-08-12T03:46:59.161+00:00Glad to read this post. As a non native English te...Glad to read this post. As a non native English teacher in Indonesia,I've been asked about such problem quite frequently. however,it's problematic to answer this kind of question by explaining that "I" is subject and "me" is object to the students who are still beginners. Any suggestion?Rif Anuddinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14263348385872588422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-82829090606105705112011-08-04T18:33:44.901+00:002011-08-04T18:33:44.901+00:00Just came across an interesting example of a conjo...Just came across an interesting example of a conjoined construction (in Swan 2005, p. 404):<br /><br />I often think of the old days and how you helped Bertie and I. (a letter from Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother to King Edward VIII) <br /><br />So, one can't argue that the usage of "X and I/she/he/they" is indicative of their social class or educational background.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341330140084823857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-48492740724376984262011-08-04T18:11:13.628+00:002011-08-04T18:11:13.628+00:00Regarding "myself": Martin Hewings in hi...Regarding "myself": Martin Hewings in his Advanced Grammar in Use (2nd edition) argues that "using myself [in conjoined constructions - Alex] reduces focus on the speaker or writer and so sounds less forceful or more polite" (p. 120, section E).<br /><br />Michael Swan in his Practical English Usage (2005) observes that "people often feel that these uses are fussy - too exact and unnecessary" (p. 476, section 493-5).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341330140084823857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-34064715377164323202011-08-04T14:30:28.282+00:002011-08-04T14:30:28.282+00:00Having read this post yesterday, I just found a ca...Having read this post yesterday, I just found a call-centre operative's pronouncement that "That's all done for yourself" to jar. While I assume it's an attempt at feigned formality it was ruined by his valedictory "Have a great day!".Richard Shakeshafthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03812895661658866389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-44161122037177139952011-08-04T10:22:58.033+00:002011-08-04T10:22:58.033+00:00I think many would agree that I has come to approx...I think many would agree that I has come to approximate to French<i> je</i>. It's essentially a stand-alone (non-conjoined) subject pronoun — although still used in conservative speech as a 'subject complement' pronoun — e.g.<i> It is I</i>. <br /><br />[To clarify, <i>I</i> is not a morphologically defined <b>nominative</b> case form but a syntactically defined <b>grammatical subject</b> form.]<br /><br />I've been involved recently in arguments about conjoined <i>I</i>and I've come to the conclusion that it's turning into the <b>unemphatic</b> alternative to <b>neutral</b> <i>me</i> and <b>emphatic</b> <i>myself</i>. This is not yet the accepted standard, of course, but it seems to be rapidly approaching the status of a norm in casual colloquial speech.<br /><br />In my judgement (others may disagree):<br /><br />• <i>Between you and I</i> is still stigmatised but (I believe) increasingly common.<br /><br />• <i>John and me will go</i> is stigmatised for its grammar but <i>Me and John will go</i> is stigmatised much more for its egocentricity, placing <i>me</i> first.<br /><br />• <i>Report back to John and myself</i> is approaching acceptability, and <i>I told him to report back to John and myself</i> is only a tad short of acceptable.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-65114974397462761482011-08-03T21:30:52.423+00:002011-08-03T21:30:52.423+00:00I live in the NY metro area and I hear the describ...I live in the NY metro area and I hear the described usage of 'myself' constantly. I grew up in the area, too, and have heard it (and been bothered by it) all my life. <br /><br />Some typical examples:<br />"That pizza was for Vinny and myself, not for you!"<br /><br />"Gina and myself, we went to the beach and got tan."<br /><br />I guess considering Olivia Faix's comment above, this particular usage didn't even make it even a couple of hours south!<br /><br />I have lived in other parts of the country but I can't remember if I'd heard it anywhere else. I think I was too busy being fascinated by regionalisms I'd never heard before than to notice if people were getting their pronouns right.limrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04555654510652823506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-54476968910694968112011-08-03T16:26:57.926+00:002011-08-03T16:26:57.926+00:00Sure - but, as I've said earlier, in titles of...Sure - but, as I've said earlier, in titles of the kind being discussed here the subject/object distinction doesn't apply. Note that it's not a matter of ambiguity. There is no problem in working out the meaning of these sentences. It's purely a matter of what counts as standard English.<br /><br />I think it's good teaching practice to make students aware of the variation, even at a relatively early level, as far as listening/reading comprehension is concerned. These titles are quite frequently encountered, after all.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-28948671562649159842011-08-03T16:20:08.863+00:002011-08-03T16:20:08.863+00:00It's funny to see your post on this. Yesterday...It's funny to see your post on this. Yesterday I had a discussion about case assignment in coordinated pronominal constructions.<br /><br />I usually don't have prescriptivist tendencies, but as a teacher of English as a second/foreign language (and an advanced learner of English myself - so please excuse my non-native English idiom), one have to "invent" certain rules, to avoid ambiguity, at least with beginner and intermediate students. As a rule of thumb, I usually tell those students to use "I" as a subject and "me" in other positions. With advanced students, I give them a more realistic picture.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341330140084823857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-46259920098336752882011-08-03T16:10:58.038+00:002011-08-03T16:10:58.038+00:00Interesting one about 'This is she'. It st...Interesting one about 'This is she'. It strikes me as literary and archaic, and there may well be a prescriptive origin to it (though I don't recollect any mention of this usage specifically) or an upper-class preference - compare the use of third-person <i>one</i> for the first person (as in 'One fell off one's horse'). I'm not sure how far back the usage goes, but stylistically it echoes the nominal uses of the pronoun, such as we see in Shakespeare ('As any she belied with false compare'). Lots of examples of this in the OED under <i>she</i> sense 7a.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-42652017498594844832011-08-03T14:34:16.471+00:002011-08-03T14:34:16.471+00:00This is a slight tangent, but I have a question re...This is a slight tangent, but I have a question regarding "It is I" as a response versus "It's me." Growing up, my mother always would reply "This is she" when people asked for her on the phone, and I do the same now (though I rarely hear it from other people). Is that an older form that has fallen out of use? Or more prescriptively correct, which my mother likes to be?<br /><br />In regard to the discussion at hand, it seems that titles and headlines have an unwritten rule of doing what functions best for the work at hand—is it catchy, does it convey the feeling they want, etc. Oliver's comment about alliteration is definitely true. Creativity trumps prescriptive correctness, which (at least in my mind) is as it should be in this particular medium.A Mittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03017133301345946872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-3046980821461539942011-08-03T08:19:54.705+00:002011-08-03T08:19:54.705+00:00Can I remind readers that this post isn't abou...Can I remind readers that this post isn't about the general use of <i>myself</i> in English, so there's no need to go into other areas of its grammar.<br /><br />It isn't possible to analyse titles in the same way as other sentences, so comments about 'subject' and 'object' are irrelevant. There's no way of deciding what the 'underlying' sentence might be, so an analysis in terms of ellipsis is pointless. It could be subject ('Marley and me is the title'), complement ('The title is Marley and me'), and so on.<br /><br />I've no idea what 'technically' means, in Carole's post. I suspect she means: in terms of traditional prescriptive grammar. But to say 'should' in this connection is being just as pedantic as the mentioned friend! That kind of attitude gets no sympathy on this blog, as long-term readers will be aware.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-55700851048580292792011-08-02T22:46:23.619+00:002011-08-02T22:46:23.619+00:00To answer your question regarding usage of "m...To answer your question regarding usage of "myself" outside of Britain:<br /><br />I'm from the U.S. (Philadelphia area), and to me, "myself" in sentences like <i>Jane and myself went to the cinema</i> and <i>They saw John and myself in the street</i> sounds awkward. I can't see a native speaker of American English saying that. I would say that Americans would likely use <i>I</i> or <i>me</i> in these situations. (We also would definitely say "movies" instead of "cinema".) "Myself" is generally used for emphasis (especially to indicate that you accomplished something with no help from others, for example: <i>I did it all by myself</i>; <i>I guess I'll just do it myself</i>), or to contrast with another recipient of the action of a verb (for example, <i>I got her a drink and then poured one for myself</i>).Olivia Faixhttp://effervescentlights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-81955215924804176352011-08-02T22:39:20.101+00:002011-08-02T22:39:20.101+00:00add one more to the list : 'me, myself and I&#...add one more to the list : 'me, myself and I' <br /><br />;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com