tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post7212993335575161383..comments2024-03-14T10:31:26.918+00:00Comments on DCblog: On me/my being rightDChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-65369785822396614622012-06-09T19:56:12.570+00:002012-06-09T19:56:12.570+00:00It's worth noting that whether you use the for...It's worth noting that whether you use the form "my" or "me", there is an argument for saying that the gerund is still ostensibly 'more verbal than nominal' overall. Contrast cases like this where an adverb, not an adjective, would generally be used to modify the gerund:<br /><br />His/The headmaster's unfairly dismissing the teacher.<br />Him/The headmaster unfairly dismissing the teacher.<br />*His/The headmaster's unfair dismissing the teacher.<br />*Him/The headmaster unfair dismissing the teacher.<br /><br />with the case of the overtly nominal 'dismissal', where the adjective, not the adverb, would be used, and where introducing the complement with the preposition 'of' is mandatory:<br /><br />The headmaster's unfair/*unfairly dismissal *(of) the teacher.<br /><br />Where -ing form is ostensibly 'nominal', it occurs in a structure similar to the latter:<br /><br />The headmaster's unfair/*unfairly dismissing *(of) the teacher.<br /><br />So given this range of constructions, I would submit that it's not clear to what extent using the possessive form as the subject of the gerund really makes the gerund much more 'nominal', and that the prescriptive preference for the possessive implies a failure to consider this range of possible constructions.Neil Coffeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11714286940692884191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-11764744427031748582011-01-28T16:07:06.301+00:002011-01-28T16:07:06.301+00:00Judging as a person whose first language is Latvia...Judging as a person whose first language is Latvian, I find that the problem with catching the nuances in this issue seems to be embedded, so to speak, in the principles of English grammar and in trying to keep it short and simple.<br /><br />The latter observation means that one might as well choose to say 'I dislike the way Brown is painting his daughter', or 'I dislike the fact that Brown is painting his daughter'. But there is little excuse for preferring longer sentences in colloquial situations, I guess. <br /><br />The former observation relates to the different principles observable in languages in relation to the usage and functions of verbs. <br /><br />To put it simply, in Latvian it is impossible to say 'The book says that...' because inanimate things cannot speak. Instead we have to say 'It is said in the book ...' And this principle means here that this 'me going by train/my going by train' should rest with the doer. The action of going by train occurs in connection with the person, he is doing the 'going by train', so, from the viewpoint of a Latvian, it should suffice to mention three things - who is doing what and how: he is going by train.<br /><br />Again, the train cannot move about aimlessly and on its own - it is used for transportation and there's a man controlling its operation.Optional Namenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-45485777110736868112010-12-30T08:24:42.331+00:002010-12-30T08:24:42.331+00:00This possessive version was one of the forms of sp...This possessive version was one of the forms of speech I deliberately dropped when as a teenager I chose to speak like those around me in stead of the "posh" way my parents spoke. I changed accent from RP to local and modified grammar where my family's was seen as snobbish.Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-59451433845570891782010-12-29T19:56:05.987+00:002010-12-29T19:56:05.987+00:00Not radio 4, although as an expat I would have enj...Not radio 4, although as an expat I would have enjoyed that version - instead I listened to you on NPR - thoroughly enjoyed the whole programme, thank you.Maddyhttp://whittereronautism.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-6071544780397815062010-12-27T23:28:54.346+00:002010-12-27T23:28:54.346+00:00Just listening to you on Radio 4 after reading you...Just listening to you on Radio 4 after reading you for years.<br />I look forward to reading your blog when I'm sober.<br /><br />xxxFagburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13995623507694941475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-28662538156887309312010-12-21T18:40:51.730+00:002010-12-21T18:40:51.730+00:00To obtain the contrast claimed by S&W, you wou...To obtain the contrast claimed by S&W, you would need to have an intonational focus on <i>me</i>; without it, both sentences would have the same implication (apart from the stylistic contrast I was talking about). I'm afraid that intonation isn't something that S&W, or style guides in general, pay much attention to.DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-82006923246887994192010-12-21T17:55:36.998+00:002010-12-21T17:55:36.998+00:00Dear Sir,
I have a question about your post. You ...Dear Sir,<br /><br />I have a question about your post. You said, "The non-possessive one highlights the verb phrase, whereas the possessive one highlights the noun phrase." <br /><br />In Strunk and White's The Elements of Style, the example and explanation are as below:<br /><br />Do you mind me asking a question?<br /><br />Do you mind my asking a question?<br /><br />In the first sentence, the queried objection is to 'me', as opposed to other members of the group, asking a question. In the second example, the issue is whether a question may be asked at all.<br /><br />This contradicts your post, no?<br /><br />Am I missing something here? Could you clarify?<br /><br />Please forgive my ignorance - I am just a non-native speaker learning English.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Krishna K.kKrIsHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05315345016678905398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-12625411415267972882010-12-20T17:28:04.266+00:002010-12-20T17:28:04.266+00:00Indeed. Readers might like to see my account of th...Indeed. Readers might like to see my account of this gradient in an earlier post ('On nominalisations').DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10192779827863835310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-6700969056976973682010-12-20T17:16:31.403+00:002010-12-20T17:16:31.403+00:00There's a wonderfully elegant treatment in A C...There's a wonderfully elegant treatment in <b>A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language</b> by Quirk, Greenbaum, Leech and Svartvik (section <b>17.54</b>), presenting a gradience from <br /><i>1. some paintings of Brown's</i> <br />at the noun end of the scale to <br /><i>14. Brown is painting his daughter</i> <br />at the verb end.<br /><br />Somewhere near the noun end come<br /><br /><i>4. Brown's deft painting of his daughter is a delight to watch.<br />5. Brown's deftly painting his daughter is a delight to watch.<br />6. I dislike Brown's painting his daughter.<br />7. I dislike Brown painting his daughter.</i><br /><br />They gloss these as:<br /><br /><i>4. It is a delight to watch while Brown deftly paints his daughter.<br />5.<b>either</b> Brown's action of painting <b>or</b> while Brown paints<br />6. I dislike <b>either</b> the fact <b>or</b> the way Brown does it<br />7. when she ought to be at school.</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8377709913595182916.post-3830575313572360962010-12-20T17:10:16.783+00:002010-12-20T17:10:16.783+00:00I was taught both versions of the construction, bo...I was taught both versions of the construction, both as equally correct. But I didn't know many consider the one without the possessive informal. I even felt it was grammatically more elaborate! <br />Actually, the 's' sounds awkward when pronouncing the construction, doesn't it. And it's not that frequent to encounter contexts where the stylistic emphasis would be very decisive:<br />e.g. Professor Crystal being a genius is no news!<br />Professor Crystal's being a genius is no news!<br /><br />Professor is a genius, anyway!Anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15784839644389409568noreply@blogger.com